Internet Computer (ICP)

$2.189  +0.83%  24H

Chỉ số cảm xúc xã hội (SSI)

Xếp hạng nhịp đập thị trường (MPR)

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  • Justin Bons Founder FA_Analyst B
     66.03K  @Justin_Bons
    d3h3d 「🦑」 D
     8.72K  @d3h3d_

    the thing that people keep missing in these critiques of icp is that everyone was psyoped into thinking it was a blockchain icp is not a blockchain every subnet canonical state is determined by a bunch of nodes that sign on the state - there’s no way to replicate and verify the state that is antithetical to blockchain design - the entire reason to have a chain of blocks is so any user can independently reconstruct and verify the state without having to trust the nodes!!! even centralized l2s keep that part of blockchain design, and they can be forked by social consensus if the operator is cheating - with icp the majority of operators are not capable of cheating by definition, they literally determine what the state is afaik it is the only network that doesn’t have this basic and fundamental guarantee to users - so please, stop treating icp as a blockchain thank you for listening to my ted talk

     13  2  1.41K
    Gốc >
    Xu hướng của ICP sau khi phát hành
     Giảm giá
    ICP lacks basic blockchain guarantees, not a real blockchain
  • Justin Bons Founder FA_Analyst B
     66.03K  @Justin_Bons
    JP.near (⋈) D
     956  @jp_dawg

    Haha $ICP got rrrrrrrek t. I especially agree with the point that it obfuscates things by using goofy terminology. This leads the community to think that only they have discovered some secret truth. Typical flat earther mindset

     15  5  1.71K
    Gốc >
    Xu hướng của ICP sau khi phát hành
     Cực kỳ bi quan
    ICP is being mocked as exaggerated and got ‘rekt’, outlook looks bleak
  • ∞ ICPReptillian ∞ Influencer Community_Lead A
     2.08K  @CambrinNolan
    OCT Gems Influencer Educator B
     12.50K  @oct_gems

    Fastest L-1 Projects by Block Time (30D): • Internet Computer ( $ICP ): 5ms • Aptos ( $APT ): 39ms • Sui ( $SUI ): 220ms • Movement ( $MOVE ): 303ms • Monad ( $MON ): 400ms • Solana ( $SOL ): 404ms • Gram ( $GRAM ): 410ms $ICP leads with ~8× faster than the next closest L1.

     164  13  8.93K
    Gốc >
    Xu hướng của ICP sau khi phát hành
     Tăng giá
    ICP leads L1 projects with a 5ms block time, far surpassing other competitors.
  • Cloud Foundation ☁️ D
     6.13K  @BobbyO_
    Cloud Foundation ☁️ D
     6.13K  @BobbyO_

    @Justin_Bons lol… 1 on 1 debate. Minimal 2 hours. Ideally 3. Equal time for each. ICP vs SUI. Or any L1 you want. Agreed upon debate format beforehand. Sometime in the next 2-3 weeks. What do you say? Repeating “tHeReS oNLy 13 NoDeS” won’t work just fyi https://t.co/t6IS9492qb

     71  16  1.03K
    Gốc >
    Xu hướng của ICP sau khi phát hành
     Tăng giá
    BobbyO_ challenges a debate on L1s such as ICP and SUI, with an image showing Justin Bons highly praising SUI technology.
  • Justin Bons Founder FA_Analyst B
     66.03K  @Justin_Bons

    1/30) ICP has a terrible design: Insecure, low capacity & highly centralized Worst of all, they are dangerously misleading the public Despite outlandish claims, ICP can be taken down by attacking a handful of nodes in known data centers! ICP's modular design is the problem: 🧵

    Justin Bons Founder FA_Analyst B
     66.03K  @Justin_Bons

    2/30) ICP is made up of independent subnets, as opposed to being a single chain (monolithic) However, unlike DOT & AVAX, there is no "shared security" Subnets are responsible for their own security! This inevitably results in extremely low validator counts, endangering users: https://t.co/ai2SMfezea

    Justin Bons Founder FA_Analyst B
     66.03K  @Justin_Bons

    3/30) At most there are less than 40 nodes protecting the user at any one time! At worst, security depends upon a mere 13 nodes, this is not decentralized by any stretch of the imagination... As the security of using ICP is entirely dependent upon whatever subnet you are using!

    Justin Bons Founder FA_Analyst B
     66.03K  @Justin_Bons

    4/30) In practice, this translates into extremely low-security guarantees for the user This also applies to all features! From HTTPS Outcalls (oracles), canisters (smart contracts), chain-key cryptography & BTC integration All are vulnerable to ICP's weak security guarantees!

    Justin Bons Founder FA_Analyst B
     66.03K  @Justin_Bons

    5/30) ICP is not a direct PoS system & is even more delegated than DPoS Because stake is not required for block production Instead, stakeholders verify & vote on specific validators! Publicly specifying the data centers these nodes are hosted on; allowing for targeted attacks!

    Justin Bons Founder FA_Analyst B
     66.03K  @Justin_Bons

    6/30) An attacker would only have to take over/regulate 2/3rds of a handful of known nodes in these data centers! This makes ICP far more vulnerable to attack compared to conventional PoS systems As it has, in part, effectively disconnected stake from the "Cost to Attack"!

    Justin Bons Founder FA_Analyst B
     66.03K  @Justin_Bons

    7/30) PoS generally uses crypto-economic-incentives to prevent attack Literally putting billions of dollars at stake, in the case of ICP, there is nothing at stake! Except for reputation, ICP, in other words, relies more on trust Going against the very ethos of cryptocurrency!

    Justin Bons Founder FA_Analyst B
     66.03K  @Justin_Bons

    8/30) ICP also makes the outlandish claim of infinite scalability (Dfinity's namesake) ICP's subnet design absolutely has a scaling limit; unlike what ICP claims; Individual subnets are limited & you cannot "combine" subnets due to "fragmentation" Proofing this to be a lie: https://t.co/9DMk7Y16z8

    Justin Bons Founder FA_Analyst B
     66.03K  @Justin_Bons

    9/30) Even though DOT & AVAX take a "similar" approach to scaling, neither claim "infinite scalability" As that would be a deeply misleading form of marketing in a finite universe As without shared security; subnets are islands of consensus that fragment the rule & security set

    Justin Bons Founder FA_Analyst B
     66.03K  @Justin_Bons

    11/30) The same is also true when increasing the number of subnets! Because subnets communicate directly with each other & Distributed Key Generation (DKG) is computationally expensive: That is what creates a hard scaling limit far removed from ICP's initial outlandish claim!

    Justin Bons Founder FA_Analyst B
     66.03K  @Justin_Bons

    10/30) Furthermore, as subnet replication is increased, the block rate goes down! With higher replication factors, more replicas (nodes) are needed to send messages for the block to be agreed upon Which causes message latency to go up, slowing down the network! (not infinite!)

    Justin Bons Founder FA_Analyst B
     66.03K  @Justin_Bons

    12/30) ICP also outlandishly claims to have solved several major problems in blockchain tech These are lies, or at least should be considered extreme forms of dishonest marketing; From solving the Oracle problem to bringing smart contracts to BTC & more misleading terminology:

    Justin Bons Founder FA_Analyst B
     66.03K  @Justin_Bons

    13/30) Starting with "bringing native smart contracts to BTC" As these contracts are only as secure as the subnet & "canisters" (smart contracts) they are built on! As this is where the BTC private keys are actually stored! Allowing the "canister" to directly interact with BTC https://t.co/WsUEb0SR81

    Justin Bons Founder FA_Analyst B
     66.03K  @Justin_Bons

    14/30) This is made possible due to the chain-key ECDSA signing built into ICP This is in no way unique or innovative, as it exists in multiple ETH contracts now While not being anywhere near as secure as native BTC! On the contrary, it is dangerous & is putting users at risk!

    Justin Bons Founder FA_Analyst B
     66.03K  @Justin_Bons

    15/30) As if the subnet is compromised, so are the private keys As subnets only have a subset of ICP's security, some with different security trade-offs! While the "canister" could even have admin keys, which could steal the BTC! Calling this native BTC is a massive red flag!

    Justin Bons Founder FA_Analyst B
     66.03K  @Justin_Bons

    16/30) This is where it starts to get even more ridiculous; ICP claims that it has solved the oracle problem through what they refer to as HTTPS outcalls Which allows smart contracts to get data directly from Web2 APIs This misses the point of what the oracle problem even is! https://t.co/ad6Mse48Es

    Justin Bons Founder FA_Analyst B
     66.03K  @Justin_Bons

    17/30) Relying on centralized APIs is not a solution to the oracle problem at all It is, instead, the very definition of the oracle problem! As the oracle problem is defined by the inability of a blockchain to know facts outside of itself without relying on centralized oracles!

    Justin Bons Founder FA_Analyst B
     66.03K  @Justin_Bons

    18/30) ICP is full of this sort of misdirection & technobabble Making it far more difficult to assess through comparative analysis For instance, their choice to call DAO's nervous systems & smart contracts canisters Might seem innovative & complex but to me screams obfuscation

    Justin Bons Founder FA_Analyst B
     66.03K  @Justin_Bons

    19/30) Tricking new users into thinking that ICP has a revolutionary, innovative design When that could not be further from the truth, requiring us to "translate" the terminology: Cannisters = Smart Contracts Replicas = Nodes Service Nervous System = DAO Neurons = Staked ICP

    Justin Bons Founder FA_Analyst B
     66.03K  @Justin_Bons

    20/30) Credit where credit is due; ICP has set up a robust system of on-chain governance Including a formalized proposal system with voting weight based on time-locked Both features I have extensively advocated for & are often not included in chains I do currently still support

    Justin Bons Founder FA_Analyst B
     66.03K  @Justin_Bons

    21/30) It was the case that running a validator required permission This has changed as this vetting role has been moved over to the main DAO This is an excellent way to decentralize a formally centralized system Reminding me of the challenge ALGO faced with its relay nodes!

    Justin Bons Founder FA_Analyst B
     66.03K  @Justin_Bons

    22/30) Another aspect of ICP's design that deserves praise is its token economics Adopting a similar design to ETH, where there is a small amount of inflation to pay for validator reward While all fees are burned in the form of "cycles", a native stablecoin that acts like gas

    Justin Bons Founder FA_Analyst B
     66.03K  @Justin_Bons

    23/30) Most of my critique is based on how ICP presents itself I have a problem with any blockchain making misleading & false statements As these are investment assets available to retail This demands higher standards from us, ICP falls way below that bar from my perspective

    Justin Bons Founder FA_Analyst B
     66.03K  @Justin_Bons

    24/30) Special thanks to the CTO of ICP; @JanCamenisch for reviewing the original critique Of course, he disagrees with my conclusions; that is understandable However, he was able to correct, deepen & nuance the critique more The community also asked for this; I respect that

    Justin Bons Founder FA_Analyst B
     66.03K  @Justin_Bons

    25/30) ICP can fix these problems: I would advocate for a form of "shared security" which, to their credit, is being worked on However, I would take this a step further & make the leap to full sharding; By combining all validators into one set & randomizing subnet selection!

    Justin Bons Founder FA_Analyst B
     66.03K  @Justin_Bons

    26/30) This would put ICP security in a range to equivalent L1's As the ICP's security would no longer be split across all of these subnets In other words; the subnets would become shards solving the "shared security" problem! ICP even has "cross-shard" communication built in!

    Justin Bons Founder FA_Analyst B
     66.03K  @Justin_Bons

    27/30) The language should also be brought in line with industry standards Stop giving things new names! We already have established terminology for everything in ICP It sounds so "scammy"; as it sounds like they are claiming to have reinvented the wheel, a common deception...

    Justin Bons Founder FA_Analyst B
     66.03K  @Justin_Bons

    28/30) Some time has passed since I first made this criticism Unfortunately, ICP has not cleaned up its communication, only doubled down! There is also the controversy of the initial supply, neither Arkham nor ICP have disclosed the addresses... A severe lack of transparency!

    Justin Bons Founder FA_Analyst B
     66.03K  @Justin_Bons

    29/30) The marketing is dishonest, whether intentional or not People are being sold the moon, as ICP claims to have solved all of crypto's problems Yet, in reality, it is highly centralized & insecure! There are some good parts to ICP, but that does not redeem all that is bad

    Justin Bons Founder FA_Analyst B
     66.03K  @Justin_Bons

    30/30) I wish the best for ICP & its supporters, as we are fighting for the same dream I could even become a supporter if ICP switched to sharding! The misleading marketing also has to be cleaned up As I think everyone would be better off with just a little bit more honesty ❤️

    Cloud Foundation ☁️ D
     6.13K  @BobbyO_

    @Justin_Bons lol… 1 on 1 debate. Minimal 2 hours. Ideally 3. Equal time for each. ICP vs SUI. Or any L1 you want. Agreed upon debate format beforehand. Sometime in the next 2-3 weeks. What do you say? Repeating “tHeReS oNLy 13 NoDeS” won’t work just fyi https://t.co/t6IS9492qb

     21  9  3.41K
    Gốc >
    Xu hướng của ICP sau khi phát hành
     Cực kỳ bi quan
    The author strongly criticizes ICP's design as insecure, centralized, and misleading in its marketing, especially regarding scalability, security, and BTC integration.
  • ChrisYost.icp ∞ Educator Influencer A
     1.87K  @ChrisYost_
    Cloud Foundation ☁️ D
     6.13K  @BobbyO_

    🔴 NEW MEMBERS VIDEO “The Bigger Picture” https://t.co/FZG24K2uJM $ICP $CLOUD ☁️♾️

     65  4  1.49K
    Gốc >
    Xu hướng của ICP sau khi phát hành
     Trung tính
    ICP 与 CLOUD 推出新成员视频,暂无交易指引
  • Cloud Foundation ☁️ D
     6.13K  @BobbyO_

    🔴 NEW MEMBERS VIDEO PART 2 https://t.co/MYU2GHD9tr $ICP $CLOUD ☁️♾️

     41  1  1.27K
    Gốc >
    Xu hướng của ICP sau khi phát hành
     Trung tính
    Published new members video part 2, no market analysis.
  • Fabio Regulatory_Expert Security_Expert S
     5.65K  @Zero2HeroZombie

    The $ICP Blockchain is now processing 194 Blocks/s⚡️ https://t.co/tuyt8yHxmn

     192  5  3.76K
    Gốc >
    Xu hướng của ICP sau khi phát hành
     Cực kỳ lạc quan
    The ICP blockchain block processing speed reaches 194 Blocks/s, with performance continuously showing significant improvement.
  • Cloud Foundation ☁️ D
     6.13K  @BobbyO_

    🔴 NEW MEMBERS VIDEO “The Bigger Picture” https://t.co/FZG24K2uJM $ICP $CLOUD ☁️♾️

     65  4  1.49K
    Gốc >
    Xu hướng của ICP sau khi phát hành
     Trung tính
    ICP 与 CLOUD 推出新成员视频,暂无交易指引
  • Fabio Regulatory_Expert Security_Expert S
     5.65K  @Zero2HeroZombie

    The number of $ICP Node Machines in Subnets is now 20.5% up since the 4th of June📈 (from 677 to 816) https://t.co/c3h9KfnAmZ

    Fabio Regulatory_Expert Security_Expert S
     5.65K  @Zero2HeroZombie

    The number of $ICP Node Machines in Subnets is now 19.3% up in the last 30 days📈 (from 677 to 808) https://t.co/BwsvGVpub4

     127  0  3.12K
    Gốc >
    Xu hướng của ICP sau khi phát hành
     Tăng giá
    ICP node machine count has risen sharply by nearly 20% over the past month, showing ecosystem expansion.